Rob, i have to say that this resonates with me and my thoughts completely. FYI In my corporate jobs that I have held just getting quietly on with the job was not enough for them. The employer actually put you on an improvement plan if you didnt fill out a bullshit appraisal form every month telling how youve ticked all the boxes. Not saying thats to blame for the affermation stuff, but thought it relevant. By the way, where did you find that photo of me. I thought i was incognito 😁
Oh I get it when it comes to these types of "requirements" in the workplace. But, do we need to get our sense of worth from filling out an appraisal? Or can we just fill out the appraisal, take the hits when there are some and just move on? Are we defined by what a corporation thinks of us and does that carry over into our lives outside of the workplace? I definitely get your point for sure. And I had to search for a long time to find that picture of you. I think you missed a spot. Haha. Thanks, as always, for chiming in.
The worst thing about my old company was that,the appraisal wasnt even aimed at the work you had produced, it was all about how you had contributed to sustainability, teamwork, efficiency and all that collectivist wankery. Os aay to my manger "Do you have problem with anything I have done this month, if so, please do tell me". He'd reply "No Rob, no issues whatsoever, just fill the fucking form inand stop making everyones lives difficult, everyone else just makes shit up, can't you do the same" so I asked him if he could spell integrity 🤣. Back your wider point Rob, the issue is so all pervading that unless you are actively aware of it and protecting your kids from it that some boor bastards don't stand a chance. Culture in general is totally introspective "me me me me me me me", affirm me, sympathise with me, im a victim. Oh shit, it makes me sick.
FUCK corporate jobs!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL Woof, saith the dog! ^_^ Do what SUITS you. I'm still working on that, and I'm over the proverbial HILL, but I donut CARE. Ha HARF!
I hate that corporate shit, why should fellers like it??? But some do.
As a gal who enjoys being strong and fit, who loves to drive fast cars and be able to FIX STUFF, who can drive a biggo truck and back the damn thing up, who is most comfortable in jeans and sneakers-- I say BE YOURSELF, no matter what, and know that there are bazillions of gals like me who LOVE YOU GUYS. A "real" woman builds up her man/men, and he does the same for her. Yes, Men are pretty damn fun. We are meant to compliment each other.
You're damn right, corporate jobs are fookin soul killers, I'm working on doind something else, but in these times we're in I'm struggling to choses the next path. If it was just me and no dependants id just jack it all in and cycle round the world with a little tent and sleeping bag. Men and women are the ying and yang of humanity. We're designed a certain way for a reason xx
And you know what, I'd wager than a HUGE percentage of us (all of us) are working on doing something else... I guess the starting point is getting these slave-driving psychopaths off our backs... Cheers, m'dear.
Back in the 80s there were plenty of guys driving loud trucks/cars and tattoos.
Being a good man requires good father figures in life.
I've worked for horrible bosses and with men who acted like it was still the 1960s glory days who pretty much lead to this future generation that is disconnected from manhood.
Hey Elizabeth, Rob (c137) actually summed it up for me. There's a difference between legit women's rights and going to the extremes of emasculating men, belittling men, portraying men as buffoons and idiots (look at almost any TV show starting with Married With Children, The Simpsons and so on and so forth), not to mention telling boys they can be little girls and a myriad of other things that guys have had to endure over my lifetime. Just like every other group that screams "rights"... eventually it goes from "rights" to "special rights" which only serves to divide groups IMHO . It turns into "revenge" for real or perceived things that have happened to one group or another over the centuries. Men and women compliment one another and our differences are real and unchangeable. We could all stand to be a bit more thoughtful in that regard (both men *and* women) instead of trying to change each other to be more "the way we want them to be". This is getting off topic of my post so I'm going to stop there as I'm a stickler for trying to stay on topic. :) Thanks so much for chiming in.
This is a bit of a rant, not that that's a bad thing. But maybe unspecific.
Yes we can all use to be more thoughtful to each other, always.
And just to empower each other, so we are all more whole and functional.
I like holding doors open for people too.
And yeah history, culture does play into it, there's no getting around that. The stories, myths we learn. The t.v. shows we grow up with feeding us a perspective.
I think he meant the fake feminists that instead of wanting equality, they absorbed the worst characteristics of men. Emma Goldman saw how when women got the right to vote in the UK they went from anti war to shaming men who didn't want to go to the world war. The irony!
Yes, cycles of abuse passed down over and over did a lot of damage.
Jimmy Dore jokes that America is like the adult children of alcoholics. There's a group that also behaves like ACOAs, without alcohol.
Those raised by narcissists... Including how society raises us.
We had huge narcissism in our culture for decades.
Good comment. My take: People get all wound up in "stuff"-- it takes a lot of work to be what we're born to be, and someone around to encourage us.
I think your statement about narcissism is RIGHT ON.
And people are brainwashed and "NEEDY" endlessly...
Women are just as easily brainwashed as men... Women are, as someone said above, I think? COMPLIMENATRY to men and vice versa. But there's also a really wide "allowance" for those who are a broad mix of "how we are's"-- I know I have always been a bit boyish, so to speak, in some ways, but I love manly men, I love fire fighters, biggo strappin' guys who jump up to protect me or do something manly for me-- I LOVE that, and I'm no soft little daisy, LOL.
I think both genders could do very well to respect the other, and themselves.
I keep thinking the world is in this horrible death throe (sp) of the unhealthy masculine. (expressed in men and women) Splintered souls, walking on their own pieces, not capable of seeing. The 'nice guy' and the angry guy in desperate need of getting together and having a chat. (maybe at a nice cozy cafe)
Thanks for your perspective on the twist in feminism.
Yeah narcissism and it's endless damages. And how our society raises us...
And.... the 'mental health' system with a quick script and a magic pill, no help at all for someone severely traumatized.
Shoot, gotta go, my bus is here, trip to alternative reality....
Fortunately there are still a few good real men out there.
They either got there on their own, which is quite possible even now, or they were spurred on
by their father.
I see plenty of both.
Personally, I dated many guys back in the day. Many. I was an RN and even in nursing school, I had that reasonable radar of what my goals were. Perhaps all of that dating also showed me many undesirable life partners as well, oh my. I learned early on that I did not enjoy stupid guys, and I have always been a pretty good judge of character. I dumped so many men, sooo many.
ONE dumped me but it was only bc I was not catholic. He ended up marrying a catholic girl 10 years younger and became very successful. He came from a family of successful men.
I married a guy just like my dad. A government guy, not a CPA like my dad, but a contract lawyer.
He was not from the DC area in which I live, he was from Michigan. His personality and upbringing appealed to me. He came from a blue collar family but his dad was a genius, apparently discovered when he was in the Army. So, my husband is very smart too.
Anyway, what was I gonna say, ...?
oh, two things, back in the 70's there were a lot of lazy loser guys and I did not like them.
I had to make the effort to seek out the kind of men at I found eligible.
My parents were living in Brussels having a fun life, dad worked at NATO
so it was just me and my druggie sisters.
second, My dad. He was an incredible guy. I believe his personal self respect and accomplishments were because of his upbringing. He was born in New Jersey, but both of his parents were from Holland. They did not stay in the US long because my dad's dad was kind of a lazy guy, he had older brothers that were successful, but not dad's dad. I believe he was depressed from some family tragedies and occurrences when he was younger. My dad just thought he was a dope.
I am so impressed with my father. He died last July at the age of 99.5 and I think about him every day. I was with him when he was dying and I told him I loved him and he would always be in my heart and I would never forget him and mom.
Since his death, I have been a co trustee on his Trust. My dad was amazing. In some ways he thought this irrevocable trust would be easy to break up but it was not. I feel guilty that I did not help him clean it all up in his last years. We have had just a few details in the trust that are not clear so we will have to get a lawyer. The most fortunate thing is that I and my siblings get along.
We know we have this duty to get this paper work done and distribute the funds.
My brother is a hot head. He is the kind of man I would never marry. He is difficult enough as a brother.
Life is precious. we should continue to help people to look at themselves and be useful and productive. Life is not always just a party
Yes my dad was the strong silent type, a blue collar worker, good provider, could fix stuff etc... All the while drinking himself to death for reasons unknown - perhaps a deeper unfulfilled yearning? Finally it was his work that killed him, dying from asbestosis.
What a shame. I can say that if there's one thing good about today's "man culture" (for lack of a better word), it has become more acceptable for guys to actually talk about stuff that is bugging them. My Father and Grandfathers would have never shared what weighed heavily upon them with other guys, *but* they all had supportive wives that kept their egos in check and helped bear the burden of life which, in my opinion, helped them overcome the temptation to use self-medication as therapy. I hope, at a minimum, you do have some decent memories of your Father. If nothing else, it is nice to see that you do remember him as a good provider and a man that could fix things. Thanks for checking in Dollyboy! It's been a minute since I've seen you here. :)
The thing that bothers me the most is that everybody now has to be part of some kind of monetized and sanctioned subculture. For example, because I'm in my mid 30s, I *must* like craft beer and enjoy playing old video games. Good luck trying to socialize if you don't fit those demographics. There's definite pressure to be part of the "in crowd", even 20 years after high school.
Nobody seems to do things that *they* like anymore.
Oh I could certainly expound on your comment FRI. But I won't. I truly understand what you are saying. I have quite a few acquaintances and friends in your age range and I have witnessed the pressure put on today's younger men to be part of a certain culture. I think it's way worse than it was in my younger years. It's the rare ones I find that are able to pull themselves out of the matrix and be their own "man" while resisting the temptation to be liked by a group that will *not* be able to help them as they progress in this life. Thanks for stopping by!
I see them all the time. But society is so fucked up right now, both men and women are trying to figure out what's what... It's not our FAULT. We are made to be insecure by all the nasty little undertones in our culture...
I see lots of good and confident men... I love you guys. Seriously! I don't expect perfection, not John Wayne, or Bruce Willis, either. I like fellers who know who they are. So, don't stop being yourselves, gents, the gals love you, regardless, as long as you treat us well. And tell us what you want, and we'll try to do it! We really ARE two halves of a whole lotta good People Stuff.
Rob, i have to say that this resonates with me and my thoughts completely. FYI In my corporate jobs that I have held just getting quietly on with the job was not enough for them. The employer actually put you on an improvement plan if you didnt fill out a bullshit appraisal form every month telling how youve ticked all the boxes. Not saying thats to blame for the affermation stuff, but thought it relevant. By the way, where did you find that photo of me. I thought i was incognito 😁
Oh I get it when it comes to these types of "requirements" in the workplace. But, do we need to get our sense of worth from filling out an appraisal? Or can we just fill out the appraisal, take the hits when there are some and just move on? Are we defined by what a corporation thinks of us and does that carry over into our lives outside of the workplace? I definitely get your point for sure. And I had to search for a long time to find that picture of you. I think you missed a spot. Haha. Thanks, as always, for chiming in.
The worst thing about my old company was that,the appraisal wasnt even aimed at the work you had produced, it was all about how you had contributed to sustainability, teamwork, efficiency and all that collectivist wankery. Os aay to my manger "Do you have problem with anything I have done this month, if so, please do tell me". He'd reply "No Rob, no issues whatsoever, just fill the fucking form inand stop making everyones lives difficult, everyone else just makes shit up, can't you do the same" so I asked him if he could spell integrity 🤣. Back your wider point Rob, the issue is so all pervading that unless you are actively aware of it and protecting your kids from it that some boor bastards don't stand a chance. Culture in general is totally introspective "me me me me me me me", affirm me, sympathise with me, im a victim. Oh shit, it makes me sick.
FUCK corporate jobs!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL Woof, saith the dog! ^_^ Do what SUITS you. I'm still working on that, and I'm over the proverbial HILL, but I donut CARE. Ha HARF!
I hate that corporate shit, why should fellers like it??? But some do.
As a gal who enjoys being strong and fit, who loves to drive fast cars and be able to FIX STUFF, who can drive a biggo truck and back the damn thing up, who is most comfortable in jeans and sneakers-- I say BE YOURSELF, no matter what, and know that there are bazillions of gals like me who LOVE YOU GUYS. A "real" woman builds up her man/men, and he does the same for her. Yes, Men are pretty damn fun. We are meant to compliment each other.
You're damn right, corporate jobs are fookin soul killers, I'm working on doind something else, but in these times we're in I'm struggling to choses the next path. If it was just me and no dependants id just jack it all in and cycle round the world with a little tent and sleeping bag. Men and women are the ying and yang of humanity. We're designed a certain way for a reason xx
Yay!
And you know what, I'd wager than a HUGE percentage of us (all of us) are working on doing something else... I guess the starting point is getting these slave-driving psychopaths off our backs... Cheers, m'dear.
Back in the 80s there were plenty of guys driving loud trucks/cars and tattoos.
Being a good man requires good father figures in life.
I've worked for horrible bosses and with men who acted like it was still the 1960s glory days who pretty much lead to this future generation that is disconnected from manhood.
I often feel it has to do with feeling/emotion and abuse. Just my perspective from my experience.
To the author:
what does 'women's rights' have to do with men standing up?
Hey Elizabeth, Rob (c137) actually summed it up for me. There's a difference between legit women's rights and going to the extremes of emasculating men, belittling men, portraying men as buffoons and idiots (look at almost any TV show starting with Married With Children, The Simpsons and so on and so forth), not to mention telling boys they can be little girls and a myriad of other things that guys have had to endure over my lifetime. Just like every other group that screams "rights"... eventually it goes from "rights" to "special rights" which only serves to divide groups IMHO . It turns into "revenge" for real or perceived things that have happened to one group or another over the centuries. Men and women compliment one another and our differences are real and unchangeable. We could all stand to be a bit more thoughtful in that regard (both men *and* women) instead of trying to change each other to be more "the way we want them to be". This is getting off topic of my post so I'm going to stop there as I'm a stickler for trying to stay on topic. :) Thanks so much for chiming in.
This is a bit of a rant, not that that's a bad thing. But maybe unspecific.
Yes we can all use to be more thoughtful to each other, always.
And just to empower each other, so we are all more whole and functional.
I like holding doors open for people too.
And yeah history, culture does play into it, there's no getting around that. The stories, myths we learn. The t.v. shows we grow up with feeding us a perspective.
We're so much more.
I think he meant the fake feminists that instead of wanting equality, they absorbed the worst characteristics of men. Emma Goldman saw how when women got the right to vote in the UK they went from anti war to shaming men who didn't want to go to the world war. The irony!
Yes, cycles of abuse passed down over and over did a lot of damage.
Jimmy Dore jokes that America is like the adult children of alcoholics. There's a group that also behaves like ACOAs, without alcohol.
Those raised by narcissists... Including how society raises us.
We had huge narcissism in our culture for decades.
Good comment. My take: People get all wound up in "stuff"-- it takes a lot of work to be what we're born to be, and someone around to encourage us.
I think your statement about narcissism is RIGHT ON.
And people are brainwashed and "NEEDY" endlessly...
Women are just as easily brainwashed as men... Women are, as someone said above, I think? COMPLIMENATRY to men and vice versa. But there's also a really wide "allowance" for those who are a broad mix of "how we are's"-- I know I have always been a bit boyish, so to speak, in some ways, but I love manly men, I love fire fighters, biggo strappin' guys who jump up to protect me or do something manly for me-- I LOVE that, and I'm no soft little daisy, LOL.
I think both genders could do very well to respect the other, and themselves.
Thanks for weighing in Rob (one of three!)
I keep thinking the world is in this horrible death throe (sp) of the unhealthy masculine. (expressed in men and women) Splintered souls, walking on their own pieces, not capable of seeing. The 'nice guy' and the angry guy in desperate need of getting together and having a chat. (maybe at a nice cozy cafe)
Thanks for your perspective on the twist in feminism.
Yeah narcissism and it's endless damages. And how our society raises us...
And.... the 'mental health' system with a quick script and a magic pill, no help at all for someone severely traumatized.
Shoot, gotta go, my bus is here, trip to alternative reality....
I think you fellers can RE-connect! Just do it.
Sending some girlie love atcha, just for that. ^_^
And Men should know: Women LOVE you. Period.
Fortunately there are still a few good real men out there.
They either got there on their own, which is quite possible even now, or they were spurred on
by their father.
I see plenty of both.
Personally, I dated many guys back in the day. Many. I was an RN and even in nursing school, I had that reasonable radar of what my goals were. Perhaps all of that dating also showed me many undesirable life partners as well, oh my. I learned early on that I did not enjoy stupid guys, and I have always been a pretty good judge of character. I dumped so many men, sooo many.
ONE dumped me but it was only bc I was not catholic. He ended up marrying a catholic girl 10 years younger and became very successful. He came from a family of successful men.
I married a guy just like my dad. A government guy, not a CPA like my dad, but a contract lawyer.
He was not from the DC area in which I live, he was from Michigan. His personality and upbringing appealed to me. He came from a blue collar family but his dad was a genius, apparently discovered when he was in the Army. So, my husband is very smart too.
Anyway, what was I gonna say, ...?
oh, two things, back in the 70's there were a lot of lazy loser guys and I did not like them.
I had to make the effort to seek out the kind of men at I found eligible.
My parents were living in Brussels having a fun life, dad worked at NATO
so it was just me and my druggie sisters.
second, My dad. He was an incredible guy. I believe his personal self respect and accomplishments were because of his upbringing. He was born in New Jersey, but both of his parents were from Holland. They did not stay in the US long because my dad's dad was kind of a lazy guy, he had older brothers that were successful, but not dad's dad. I believe he was depressed from some family tragedies and occurrences when he was younger. My dad just thought he was a dope.
I am so impressed with my father. He died last July at the age of 99.5 and I think about him every day. I was with him when he was dying and I told him I loved him and he would always be in my heart and I would never forget him and mom.
Since his death, I have been a co trustee on his Trust. My dad was amazing. In some ways he thought this irrevocable trust would be easy to break up but it was not. I feel guilty that I did not help him clean it all up in his last years. We have had just a few details in the trust that are not clear so we will have to get a lawyer. The most fortunate thing is that I and my siblings get along.
We know we have this duty to get this paper work done and distribute the funds.
My brother is a hot head. He is the kind of man I would never marry. He is difficult enough as a brother.
Life is precious. we should continue to help people to look at themselves and be useful and productive. Life is not always just a party
Thanks so much for your comment Rosemary! It was on topic and you truly were able to "get" the point I was trying to make in my post.
sometimes I explode with chatter haha
wow this is long. sorry haha
Yes my dad was the strong silent type, a blue collar worker, good provider, could fix stuff etc... All the while drinking himself to death for reasons unknown - perhaps a deeper unfulfilled yearning? Finally it was his work that killed him, dying from asbestosis.
What a shame. I can say that if there's one thing good about today's "man culture" (for lack of a better word), it has become more acceptable for guys to actually talk about stuff that is bugging them. My Father and Grandfathers would have never shared what weighed heavily upon them with other guys, *but* they all had supportive wives that kept their egos in check and helped bear the burden of life which, in my opinion, helped them overcome the temptation to use self-medication as therapy. I hope, at a minimum, you do have some decent memories of your Father. If nothing else, it is nice to see that you do remember him as a good provider and a man that could fix things. Thanks for checking in Dollyboy! It's been a minute since I've seen you here. :)
No, thank you. Excellent post btw. I should have mentioned that.
Damn, that's so sad, I'm sorry to see it. xo (From an old gal-- we still believe in hugs & kisses, for anybody.)
The thing that bothers me the most is that everybody now has to be part of some kind of monetized and sanctioned subculture. For example, because I'm in my mid 30s, I *must* like craft beer and enjoy playing old video games. Good luck trying to socialize if you don't fit those demographics. There's definite pressure to be part of the "in crowd", even 20 years after high school.
Nobody seems to do things that *they* like anymore.
Glad I was born BEFORE computers came into the home!
We used to go outside and PLAY, for HOURS. Soooo good.
Just be who you WANT to be, FRI. That's my advice, as a gal old enough to be your mom.
Oh I could certainly expound on your comment FRI. But I won't. I truly understand what you are saying. I have quite a few acquaintances and friends in your age range and I have witnessed the pressure put on today's younger men to be part of a certain culture. I think it's way worse than it was in my younger years. It's the rare ones I find that are able to pull themselves out of the matrix and be their own "man" while resisting the temptation to be liked by a group that will *not* be able to help them as they progress in this life. Thanks for stopping by!
They're around!
I see them all the time. But society is so fucked up right now, both men and women are trying to figure out what's what... It's not our FAULT. We are made to be insecure by all the nasty little undertones in our culture...
I see lots of good and confident men... I love you guys. Seriously! I don't expect perfection, not John Wayne, or Bruce Willis, either. I like fellers who know who they are. So, don't stop being yourselves, gents, the gals love you, regardless, as long as you treat us well. And tell us what you want, and we'll try to do it! We really ARE two halves of a whole lotta good People Stuff.