Ha, ha, just playin'. ^_^ I think you're right about the idea that pretty much everyone agrees on certain things that are the critical things for life and a decent life at that. I've been talking about this too, for a couple of years, but not very very recently, so maybe I'll do a post around this idea. I do agree that what we choose to FOCUS on is a critical part of coming together. It always has been, no?
Thanks Word Herder. It's funny that the day I posted this I had the opportunity to "practice what I preach". A technician was here about our internet service. Somehow we ended up talking about SSRI's for his children and how he thinks that they are the best option to treat their "ADHD." I don't believe this at all and bit my tongue. So... I asked what he thought about the soy oil and sugar that's in pretty much every mass produced food in America. Guess what? He agreed and actually knew some things I didn't know about the subject. We ended up talking about that the rest of the time he was here and a respectful bond was formed. *This* is the way we do it. Finding those areas where we agree is the key to restoring unity. It has to be done. Thanks for your input as always.
One thing..... you think there is a key to restore unity?
I don't think there has ever been true unity since we crawled out of the sea and, maybe, not even then.... the whole point of nature seems to have been moving away from an initial unity in the warm sludge of the beginning and now it is devising more and more diversity between individuals of every breed. Maybe the diversity itself is an organic and essential natural progression towards something even more spectacular than unity?
I agree Frances Leader. I think I should have been more specific in my post. Our focus (IMO) should be our families and our peer groups. That's where we actually have a chance at unity. I don't necessarily think (or want) the "world" to be unified. I think that would be very dangerous actually. But my small brain and my hopeful nature would like to see more unity with those we would like to take with us on this journey moving forward. (If that makes sense). I read comments all over the place and still see people who supposedly agree on the basics, arguing about things we have absolutely no control over. Let's stop arguing about what we can't control, and move on to things we actually can affect. I've found in my own life that the only way to do that is by finding those connections where I agree with someone. And almost always I end up having the opportunity to bring up those niggling subjects down the road. Love having your input!
The diversity of others delights me. They make me work, learn and appreciate how wonderfully individual human beings are. Whether we understand it or not, undoubtedly the Universe is unfolding as it should and that includes your clever strategy within your own milieu. It is the art of diplomacy and that has its place in any society.
Unity doesn't cancel diversity... Unless you're thinking of "unity" as a homogeneous soup of human beans with no individuality... That only happens by malfeasance. That's not my idea of UNITY... To me, unity is when we agree on certain basics and pursue them as an over-arching means of achieving a common goal... such as Healthy Food, or Clean Water... Unity is not FORCED, it's an AGREEMENT.
I read you r piece three times thinking about how to constructively comment. Here goes.
Where to start…. how about, we agree and disagree? It is one thing to preach to the choir of curious minds who can rotate shapes and juggle two realities at the same time before settling on a preferred one, it is another to change the hearts and minds of those so entrenched they can’t even see the sky any longer.
This message of “let’s seek agreement, to end division” has been flown up the flagpole many times. I agree that there needs to be more conversations, more debates, more acceptance of differing perspective. But that perception cannot be a two-way mirror, but rather an open sash where the breeze can blow both ways. These days that is rarely the case.
Another problem lies in the reciprocation of the conversations. It is one thing to have a rational discussion with rational people, and whether consensus is reached or not, at least different views can be talked about. That’s all great, until the listening stops, the rationality stops, even the sophist consideration of an opposing viewpoint becomes imaginary. Then the division sets in and becomes more deeply entrenched.
The other problem is there are things, that are right and wrong. There is a reason for discernment and making choices. No amount of sophistry can make some of the more recent batshit crazy ideas seem even vaguely palatable.
I agree we need to take the high road and have conversations, especially with those we disagree with. I also know that appeasement, or changing the topic (ie narrative) is temporary at best and perceived as childlike.
The other glaring but disguised issue is the level of bureaucratic and “journalistic” corruption and collusion to spin up the citizenry into breaking themselves down (most likely to be more controllable). You mentioned, “Food. A decent job. A decent place to live. Happiness. Family. Friends. Freedom to do what I want. Personal health (and the ability to make their own health choices). The ability to travel. The ability to worship or not to worship. The ability to choose their own peer group. Finding love.” Every one of these have become issues of division, because, of government intervention, control and regulation. If we could agree on at least some of these issues, or at least live and let live, then we could fight the real enemy (government largesse).
I appreciate your perspective and your well thought out comment John. Maybe my post is too "pie in the sky" and "rose colored glasses", but I don't think we can completely give up on those we really care about. Like I say in almost every post: We don't have to change the world, we just need to change *our* world. The division in our families and peer groups needs to be healed. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I know that my post may simplify things a bit too much, but some of this stuff is easier than we at first think. I don't think it's useful to go and try and have a conversation with a group of BLM or Antifa "activists" and try and change their minds. But, we can do like I did yesterday with the technician that was at our home (see reply to word herder). That's what I'm talking about. Changing the narrative. Getting on with things we actually can affect. Not easy. But doable. And we have to be willing to start doing something. Because, right now, it seems like all we do is argue about masks, shots, "covid", monkey pox and all of the narratives that are being shoved down our throats when really, most people care more about the things that matter. We just forget that when we are so wrapped up in the garbage being spewed by governments, media, etc. *Always* appreciate you input John! Incredible perspective. Thank you!
I agree in principle, but I just can’t get this to work in practice. Covid is such an all consuming topic that it’s almost impossible for it not to come up. Sure, I could talk about the weather or whatever but I’m just not interested in these trivialities. Like you said, everyone can feel that something is very wrong. It’s always lurking right beneath the surface.
I feel like a religious zealot — I have to get people to see what is going and, much more importantly, *take concrete steps to avoid the impending catastrophe*. Like Word Herder, I want *action*. If that costs me some relationships, then so be it.
Haha. I get it. It's not easy. See my reply to Word Herder. If we don't get off of "covid" we'll never heal. It's going to be used to keep us in a rut until the final nail is pounded in the coffin. IMHO.
Such a great Floyd album and fantastic song. Post Roger Waters era, and David Gilmore is fully in control. Such a strangely underrated musician, Gilmore. His guitar and voice during his prime are so absolutely haunting and unique.
David Gilmore is my favorite guitar player of all time. I've always said that my favorite instruments in my life are: A well played alto sax. And "David Gilmore's sad guitar".
Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't seen that played live before. Incredible. Now I'll be haunted by Gilmore's console guitar instead of the division bell ringing in my head for a spell! Haha.
I thought we were going to create a parallel society and just leave those folks alone who have the strange ideas. Maybe I missed a post or two.
On the other hand, I agree that engaging someone over one of their trigger point topics is not beneficial to anyone but finding a concerning issue we have in common could help build a workable relationship (that I'll ignore in my parallel society ; )
BTW I had never heard of The Division Bell album before reading your post. I listened to it online. today. It sounds so damned depressing, I'm sorry it is playing in your head.
Hey Brian. You know, I definitely think that creating those parallel societies is extremely important. But, we have to have some unity within those societies as well. There's still a lot of division even among those who believe like we do. And some of us still have a few family members and friends who are on the edge... they aren't worth giving up on yet. And we can change their minds if we start finding those areas where we agree. Again, like I said, there are times when walking away is the only answer. But, I don't think it means we give up completely on everyone who doesn't agree with us 100% on everything. And oh heck yeah, that album is very dark. lol. Thanks. I think the bell has slowed down a bit. :) Appreciate your input as always.
Rob it is obvious that you have a big heart and will always see the possibilities of healed relationships. Really the reason I read your posts I suppose. I think anything is possible but there are times when we must admit that some things are extremely unlikely. I say that because I can't live my life with thoughts of desperate reconciliation at the top of mind. They get in the way of actually living my life. I have relatives that I have a familial love for but I won't spend another minute pining for their acceptance or reciprocated love. But I do keep the door of my heart unlocked so it is possible for anyone to enter.
That said, if someone tries to jamb their ideas down my throat they should beware that I will respond with what I think is superior thought. For some, having an opposing opinion is very offensive. Alternately, if someone wants to explain their thinking on a subject I am all ears and will gladly engage in a civil discussion so there can at least be an understanding between us and maybe I or both of us will come away more enlightened.
Appreciate your humanity Rob. Keep up the good work.
Always enjoy reading your perspective Brian. I totally get where you are coming from and I agree! Like I said, sometimes we have to walk away. I believe we know in our heart and gut whether unity is possible with someone. Trying to "make something happen" or change someone's view when a delusion is so embedded there's literally no common ground left is definitely not my goal either. Hope to see you next week!
It works ws. Not always. But many times it really does. See my reply to Word Herder. I never post about things that I don't at least attempt to do in my own life. I always try to "practice what I preach". If I didn't, I'd feel like a hypocrite. And we have plenty of those already. Thanks so much for being here ws.
Thank you for your thank you. That's kind of you. I strongly agree that finding common ground is the necessary way forward. So I appreciate your advocating for that mindset, but it was your examples of HOW TO DO IT that I read as pure gold. I was totally laughing. I'd never thought of reaching SO FAR to find commonality! Ingenius. I do think that that--at this point-- is what it will take to repair the rifts. Connected people will obstruct globalist plans. They want an angry world where our anger is directed at each other. Thanks again for an inspiring post.
You definitely get where I'm coming from. Klaus Schwab has literally said something like, "Ve vill live in a much angrier world." I say NO! That's exactly what they want! I refuse. I'm actually sick of the anger. Anger leads to violence and once violence starts it ends any possibility for repair of a society for a long time. Hope to see you next week! :)
lol. Well, Roger Waters (Original Pink Floyd band member), is still out there and he's actually really bright and insightful about what's going on in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't write The Dark Side of the Spoon. I haven't bought music in a long time. But that one would definitely be worth spending the money on!
Agree we definitely need to unite and it’s a difficult problem. I do believe that posing questions is the way to go. It’s no use telling people “facts”. That’s just preachy. But asking questions like “have you seen X?” “Have you noticed X?” are the way to get people asking their own questions. People need to discover things for themselves especially when you are asking them to question things that they’ve probably blindly believed their whole lives.
Also I have the pink vinyl edition of Dark Side of the Moon even though I no longer own a record player. Classic.
Spot on JJ. Glad you stopped by. And don't get me started on vinyl albums... I had a gold plated edition of The Wall and hundreds of other albums and I took them to the dump in the late 80's. I get sick to my stomach when I think about it. Cheers until next time!
Nope, you're WRONG.
Ha, ha, just playin'. ^_^ I think you're right about the idea that pretty much everyone agrees on certain things that are the critical things for life and a decent life at that. I've been talking about this too, for a couple of years, but not very very recently, so maybe I'll do a post around this idea. I do agree that what we choose to FOCUS on is a critical part of coming together. It always has been, no?
Good post, brother man. xo
Thanks Word Herder. It's funny that the day I posted this I had the opportunity to "practice what I preach". A technician was here about our internet service. Somehow we ended up talking about SSRI's for his children and how he thinks that they are the best option to treat their "ADHD." I don't believe this at all and bit my tongue. So... I asked what he thought about the soy oil and sugar that's in pretty much every mass produced food in America. Guess what? He agreed and actually knew some things I didn't know about the subject. We ended up talking about that the rest of the time he was here and a respectful bond was formed. *This* is the way we do it. Finding those areas where we agree is the key to restoring unity. It has to be done. Thanks for your input as always.
I love that. This is how we do it! xo
You are a sweetie Rob. Yep, you are that alright.
One thing..... you think there is a key to restore unity?
I don't think there has ever been true unity since we crawled out of the sea and, maybe, not even then.... the whole point of nature seems to have been moving away from an initial unity in the warm sludge of the beginning and now it is devising more and more diversity between individuals of every breed. Maybe the diversity itself is an organic and essential natural progression towards something even more spectacular than unity?
I agree Frances Leader. I think I should have been more specific in my post. Our focus (IMO) should be our families and our peer groups. That's where we actually have a chance at unity. I don't necessarily think (or want) the "world" to be unified. I think that would be very dangerous actually. But my small brain and my hopeful nature would like to see more unity with those we would like to take with us on this journey moving forward. (If that makes sense). I read comments all over the place and still see people who supposedly agree on the basics, arguing about things we have absolutely no control over. Let's stop arguing about what we can't control, and move on to things we actually can affect. I've found in my own life that the only way to do that is by finding those connections where I agree with someone. And almost always I end up having the opportunity to bring up those niggling subjects down the road. Love having your input!
The diversity of others delights me. They make me work, learn and appreciate how wonderfully individual human beings are. Whether we understand it or not, undoubtedly the Universe is unfolding as it should and that includes your clever strategy within your own milieu. It is the art of diplomacy and that has its place in any society.
Unity doesn't cancel diversity... Unless you're thinking of "unity" as a homogeneous soup of human beans with no individuality... That only happens by malfeasance. That's not my idea of UNITY... To me, unity is when we agree on certain basics and pursue them as an over-arching means of achieving a common goal... such as Healthy Food, or Clean Water... Unity is not FORCED, it's an AGREEMENT.
I read you r piece three times thinking about how to constructively comment. Here goes.
Where to start…. how about, we agree and disagree? It is one thing to preach to the choir of curious minds who can rotate shapes and juggle two realities at the same time before settling on a preferred one, it is another to change the hearts and minds of those so entrenched they can’t even see the sky any longer.
This message of “let’s seek agreement, to end division” has been flown up the flagpole many times. I agree that there needs to be more conversations, more debates, more acceptance of differing perspective. But that perception cannot be a two-way mirror, but rather an open sash where the breeze can blow both ways. These days that is rarely the case.
Another problem lies in the reciprocation of the conversations. It is one thing to have a rational discussion with rational people, and whether consensus is reached or not, at least different views can be talked about. That’s all great, until the listening stops, the rationality stops, even the sophist consideration of an opposing viewpoint becomes imaginary. Then the division sets in and becomes more deeply entrenched.
The other problem is there are things, that are right and wrong. There is a reason for discernment and making choices. No amount of sophistry can make some of the more recent batshit crazy ideas seem even vaguely palatable.
I agree we need to take the high road and have conversations, especially with those we disagree with. I also know that appeasement, or changing the topic (ie narrative) is temporary at best and perceived as childlike.
The other glaring but disguised issue is the level of bureaucratic and “journalistic” corruption and collusion to spin up the citizenry into breaking themselves down (most likely to be more controllable). You mentioned, “Food. A decent job. A decent place to live. Happiness. Family. Friends. Freedom to do what I want. Personal health (and the ability to make their own health choices). The ability to travel. The ability to worship or not to worship. The ability to choose their own peer group. Finding love.” Every one of these have become issues of division, because, of government intervention, control and regulation. If we could agree on at least some of these issues, or at least live and let live, then we could fight the real enemy (government largesse).
I appreciate your perspective and your well thought out comment John. Maybe my post is too "pie in the sky" and "rose colored glasses", but I don't think we can completely give up on those we really care about. Like I say in almost every post: We don't have to change the world, we just need to change *our* world. The division in our families and peer groups needs to be healed. A house divided against itself cannot stand. I know that my post may simplify things a bit too much, but some of this stuff is easier than we at first think. I don't think it's useful to go and try and have a conversation with a group of BLM or Antifa "activists" and try and change their minds. But, we can do like I did yesterday with the technician that was at our home (see reply to word herder). That's what I'm talking about. Changing the narrative. Getting on with things we actually can affect. Not easy. But doable. And we have to be willing to start doing something. Because, right now, it seems like all we do is argue about masks, shots, "covid", monkey pox and all of the narratives that are being shoved down our throats when really, most people care more about the things that matter. We just forget that when we are so wrapped up in the garbage being spewed by governments, media, etc. *Always* appreciate you input John! Incredible perspective. Thank you!
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
“You simply have to turn your back on a culture that has gone sterile and dead and get with the program of a living world and the imagination.”
- Terence McKenna
I agree in principle, but I just can’t get this to work in practice. Covid is such an all consuming topic that it’s almost impossible for it not to come up. Sure, I could talk about the weather or whatever but I’m just not interested in these trivialities. Like you said, everyone can feel that something is very wrong. It’s always lurking right beneath the surface.
I feel like a religious zealot — I have to get people to see what is going and, much more importantly, *take concrete steps to avoid the impending catastrophe*. Like Word Herder, I want *action*. If that costs me some relationships, then so be it.
Haha. I get it. It's not easy. See my reply to Word Herder. If we don't get off of "covid" we'll never heal. It's going to be used to keep us in a rut until the final nail is pounded in the coffin. IMHO.
Such a great Floyd album and fantastic song. Post Roger Waters era, and David Gilmore is fully in control. Such a strangely underrated musician, Gilmore. His guitar and voice during his prime are so absolutely haunting and unique.
David Gilmore is my favorite guitar player of all time. I've always said that my favorite instruments in my life are: A well played alto sax. And "David Gilmore's sad guitar".
This is one of my all-time favorite moments captured on video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=218_-Lze8N0
Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't seen that played live before. Incredible. Now I'll be haunted by Gilmore's console guitar instead of the division bell ringing in my head for a spell! Haha.
I thought we were going to create a parallel society and just leave those folks alone who have the strange ideas. Maybe I missed a post or two.
On the other hand, I agree that engaging someone over one of their trigger point topics is not beneficial to anyone but finding a concerning issue we have in common could help build a workable relationship (that I'll ignore in my parallel society ; )
BTW I had never heard of The Division Bell album before reading your post. I listened to it online. today. It sounds so damned depressing, I'm sorry it is playing in your head.
Hey Brian. You know, I definitely think that creating those parallel societies is extremely important. But, we have to have some unity within those societies as well. There's still a lot of division even among those who believe like we do. And some of us still have a few family members and friends who are on the edge... they aren't worth giving up on yet. And we can change their minds if we start finding those areas where we agree. Again, like I said, there are times when walking away is the only answer. But, I don't think it means we give up completely on everyone who doesn't agree with us 100% on everything. And oh heck yeah, that album is very dark. lol. Thanks. I think the bell has slowed down a bit. :) Appreciate your input as always.
Rob it is obvious that you have a big heart and will always see the possibilities of healed relationships. Really the reason I read your posts I suppose. I think anything is possible but there are times when we must admit that some things are extremely unlikely. I say that because I can't live my life with thoughts of desperate reconciliation at the top of mind. They get in the way of actually living my life. I have relatives that I have a familial love for but I won't spend another minute pining for their acceptance or reciprocated love. But I do keep the door of my heart unlocked so it is possible for anyone to enter.
That said, if someone tries to jamb their ideas down my throat they should beware that I will respond with what I think is superior thought. For some, having an opposing opinion is very offensive. Alternately, if someone wants to explain their thinking on a subject I am all ears and will gladly engage in a civil discussion so there can at least be an understanding between us and maybe I or both of us will come away more enlightened.
Appreciate your humanity Rob. Keep up the good work.
Always enjoy reading your perspective Brian. I totally get where you are coming from and I agree! Like I said, sometimes we have to walk away. I believe we know in our heart and gut whether unity is possible with someone. Trying to "make something happen" or change someone's view when a delusion is so embedded there's literally no common ground left is definitely not my goal either. Hope to see you next week!
Hey, Rob, I just did a complimentary post to this one, and I shared this post on it, too.
Let's rock the boat, eh? ^_^
I want ACTION!
Thanks for sharing my post Word Herder. That was very kind of you.
Beautiful. Inspiring post. Thank you. I will do this.
It works ws. Not always. But many times it really does. See my reply to Word Herder. I never post about things that I don't at least attempt to do in my own life. I always try to "practice what I preach". If I didn't, I'd feel like a hypocrite. And we have plenty of those already. Thanks so much for being here ws.
Thank you for your thank you. That's kind of you. I strongly agree that finding common ground is the necessary way forward. So I appreciate your advocating for that mindset, but it was your examples of HOW TO DO IT that I read as pure gold. I was totally laughing. I'd never thought of reaching SO FAR to find commonality! Ingenius. I do think that that--at this point-- is what it will take to repair the rifts. Connected people will obstruct globalist plans. They want an angry world where our anger is directed at each other. Thanks again for an inspiring post.
You definitely get where I'm coming from. Klaus Schwab has literally said something like, "Ve vill live in a much angrier world." I say NO! That's exactly what they want! I refuse. I'm actually sick of the anger. Anger leads to violence and once violence starts it ends any possibility for repair of a society for a long time. Hope to see you next week! :)
The Dark Side of the Moon.
And eating bugs? The Dark Side of the Spoon...
lol. Well, Roger Waters (Original Pink Floyd band member), is still out there and he's actually really bright and insightful about what's going on in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't write The Dark Side of the Spoon. I haven't bought music in a long time. But that one would definitely be worth spending the money on!
Agree we definitely need to unite and it’s a difficult problem. I do believe that posing questions is the way to go. It’s no use telling people “facts”. That’s just preachy. But asking questions like “have you seen X?” “Have you noticed X?” are the way to get people asking their own questions. People need to discover things for themselves especially when you are asking them to question things that they’ve probably blindly believed their whole lives.
Also I have the pink vinyl edition of Dark Side of the Moon even though I no longer own a record player. Classic.
Spot on JJ. Glad you stopped by. And don't get me started on vinyl albums... I had a gold plated edition of The Wall and hundreds of other albums and I took them to the dump in the late 80's. I get sick to my stomach when I think about it. Cheers until next time!
Let's keep harping on about the solutions.... xx
Had to listen to it again....
https://youtu.be/eje4IrmSVJI